Curse

joshuarodger · Sep 17, 2009, 02:54 AM // 02:54

I'm thinking about trying to build my first computer. i've read through zamial's and moriz's guides and, while very detailed and informative, they don't tell me why this part is better than that part. i want to understand the reason why a $70 graphics card costs only $70 and why a $200 card costs $200. i visited www.how-to-build-computers.com, but the site seems to be dead. i'm wondering if anyone knows of any other good/reputable sites or forums for newb builders or computer un-savvy people like myself. any info would be greatly appreciated.

moriz · Sep 17, 2009, 03:57 AM // 03:57

unfortunately, us techs usually draws upon prior knowledge. we read reviews, participate in discussion forums, etc. it's going to be overwhelming for someone new like you to jump right in, and know how much a part's worth.

for the most part, you'll have to trust us. we won't lie to you, and we'll always try to give you the most unbiased view. well, it's either trust us, or trust the Bestbuy sales agent who will DEFINITELY rip you off.

and um.. don't read my guide. it's out of date. i plan to do a full update once the radeon 5800 series come out, and intel core i5 prices settle down.

joshuarodger · Sep 17, 2009, 04:28 AM // 04:28

you may have misunderstood me. i do trust you because, on a forum like this, what motive do you have for "ripping me off?" the reason i'm asking is because you won't be standing next to me when i'm deciding what to buy and i don't want to have to post here every time with "which is better..." so, as a tech guy, where did you come by your knowledge, and where is a good place for me to pick some up also? again, i'm only asking so i can make my own informed decisions, not because of any doubt or distrust of you or anyone else on these forums.

moriz · Sep 17, 2009, 04:39 AM // 04:39

techreport.com is my personal favorite. the reviews are amazing, and have very thorough testing to back them up.

tomshardware.com is not as good, but read the latest "best graphic card" guides they put out every month. at the end is a comparison chart of relative graphic card power.

Quaker · Sep 17, 2009, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshuarodger

i want to understand the reason why a $70 graphics card costs only $70 and why a $200 card costs $200.

Generally speaking, as the price increases, the overall performance increases. In the case of video cards, that means that a more expensive card is generally more capable of handling more intensive graphics routines and/or doing it faster.
It does take some reading up on things and thinking about things to get a better knowledge about the subject, but that's pretty much the same with everything in life.

Burst Cancel · Sep 17, 2009, 04:32 PM // 16:32

You're overthinking this, frankly. Generally speaking, computer components are graded on only three metrics: performance, cost, and power consumption (although most people ignore the last one). To figure out the best component for you, all you have to do is pull up performance charts and compare based on price. For the most part, that's all anyone else is doing. In other words, if you can read graphs and compare prices, you can make good purchasing decisions.

So the reason a $70 graphics card costs $70 and a $200 one costs $200 is because the $200 (hopefully) performs better than the $70 one. That's all there is to it.

But if you want more info, jump in:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/index.php
http://www.anandtech.com
http://www.pcper.com
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com
http://www.overclockersclub.com
http://www.hardforum.com

Elder III · Sep 17, 2009, 05:48 PM // 17:48

read the reviews and get as much information as possible before making your "potential" buy list - then by all means post your final want to buy list here - most of the people here like nothing better than going over someone elses build and and offering advice, and maybe even helping you find the same or similar part elsewhere for cheaper. These forums are here to let us all help each other with this type of thing, so don't be shy.

joshuarodger · Sep 18, 2009, 02:24 PM // 14:24

first, thanks for all the info and websites. i'm starting to learn quite a bit, but still a little lost on what makes a mid-range, media/family computer and where it crosses the line into a gaming computer.

as it stands, i'm not really looking for a top end gaming comp. i want it to be able to play most games but i'm not going to be throwing anything real heavy at it (i don't think). basically i'll be playing games like GW, GW2 and maybe Aion if i can bring myself to pay monthly for a game.

this is the cpu/mobo combo i'm looking at right now: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboD...t=Combo.259850

will this be able to handle these type of games as well as general microsoft office aps and web surfing?

moriz · Sep 18, 2009, 02:29 PM // 14:29

that is a pretty good combo. the motherboard uses a SB710 southbridge, which supports ACC (advanced clock calibration). this means, you'll have a good chance of unlocking the deactivated fourth core on the phenom II x3 720 and turn it into a very cheap (and quite powerful) quadcore.

however, you'll still need a graphic card, as well as RAM, hard drive, and optical drive. not to mention, a case and power supply.

joshuarodger · Sep 18, 2009, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

however, you'll still need a graphic card, as well as RAM, hard drive, and optical drive. not to mention, a case and power supply.

yeah, still shopping for all that stuff.

thanks for the confirmation though.

Quaker · Sep 18, 2009, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshuarodger

will this be able to handle these type of games as well as general microsoft office aps and web surfing?

When it comes to games, the cpu/mobo/RAM is less important than the graphics card. Any modern (and even less than modern) cpu can handle MS office and web surfing.
I would recommend you get something like an ATI (based) HD4850 (or nVidia equivalent), or better, to go with that cpu, to get the performance in games that you probably want.

joshuarodger · Sep 18, 2009, 03:56 PM // 15:56

psu/mobo combo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboD...t=Combo.259850
video: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130485
hard drive: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136195
RAM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231185
optical drive: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827151187
PSU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817182075
case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811144219

this is what i've tentatively settled on. a few questions: is everything compatible? is there anything that needs to be upgraded? is there any overkill, can anything be downgraded?

one final question, is it worth it to build a system with these approximate specs, or can i buy one with windows and everything already loaded for a comparable price ($491.92)?

thanks for all the help so far.

moriz · Sep 18, 2009, 04:34 PM // 16:34

your video card is quite weak, especially for that price. i'd suggest this one:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-170-_-Product
it's $10 more, but dramatically more powerful.

your RAM is not compatible with your motherboard. it only takes DDR2 memory, you picked DDR3. your hard drive is also very small. you can afford a much larger hard drive for a few dollars more.

lastly, your PSU is not particularly great. however, if you are not going to look into heavy duty graphic cards and hardware, it will suffice.

Elder III · Sep 18, 2009, 05:08 PM // 17:08

get this video card, better than either your original and a little better than MOriz's as well
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-414-_-Product
- it's only $85 after rebate = tremendous performance for a low price.
Get DDR2 RAM you can pick up 4GB for $50 and I gurantee that for what you will be doing you would notice 0 perceivable benefit from getting DDR3 vs DDR2.
Get this PSU, you don't want to cut yourself short here... buy quality and buy with room for future upgrades.... this gives you both for about $5 more.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817341017
the CPU/mobo combo looks good, the rest is mostly personal choice.

joshuarodger · Sep 18, 2009, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

your RAM is not compatible with your motherboard. it only takes DDR2 memory, you picked DDR3. your hard drive is also very small. you can afford a much larger hard drive for a few dollars more.

everything i've read about this mobo says something like "supports DDR3 memory" does that mean that i have to buy an upgrade or something to use DDR3, or is it just completely incompatible? what's the difference in DDR2 and DDR3?

thanks moriz and elder. i've upgraded to the psu suggested by elder and the video card suggested by moriz. the one you suggested elder, seemed to be quite large and had a few reviews that scared me off.

what do you think of this hard drive? not much more expensive, but has a ton more room. is it reliable and fast? what should i be looking at when selecting a hard drive?http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822148395

Ec]-[oMaN · Sep 18, 2009, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshuarodger

everything i've read about this mobo says something like "supports DDR3 memory" does that mean that i have to buy an upgrade or something to use DDR3, or is it just completely incompatible? what's the difference in DDR2 and DDR3?

Seems to support DDR3 as documented on the offical page and the newegg links. So you are good to go with your current ddr3 that you listed.

http://www.giga-byte.com/Products/Mo...ProductID=3096

moriz · Sep 18, 2009, 08:13 PM // 20:13

sorry my bad. i misread it... could've swore AMD 770 chipsets are DDR2 only.

anyways, i think the 4770 graphic card is the better buy. its performance is very close to the 4850, but operates at half of 4850's power draw.

Ec]-[oMaN · Sep 18, 2009, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

sorry my bad. i misread it... could've swore AMD 770 chipsets are DDR2 only.

anyways, i think the 4770 graphic card is the better buy. its performance is very close to the 4850, but operates at half of 4850's power draw.

Runs cooler also, if you disregard mail in rebates for 5$ over the 4850 I'd also opt for the 4770, the only time the 4850 beat the 4770 was in higher rezed tests at levels of AA/AF that you wouldn't use at those reses with these cards anyways. Most of the differences were between 1-5fps anyways between both in some titles nothing to get your jollies worked up over, noise and heat/power effeciancy for 5$more is what it comes down to.

joshuarodger · Sep 19, 2009, 03:45 PM // 15:45

can a mobo that supports DDR3 also run DDR2 memory sticks? if so, would it be more cost effecient to buy the DDR2 for what i'll be using the computer for?

Ec]-[oMaN · Sep 19, 2009, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshuarodger

can a mobo that supports DDR3 also run DDR2 memory sticks?

No, not yours at least think there was one mobo back in the day that could alter between two different memory configs, haven't heard anything in the last few years about anything like that though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshuarodger

would it be more cost effecient to buy the DDR2 for what i'll be using the computer for?

No, right now ddr2 and ddr3 are pretty much on par cost wise between the two, and every computer platform is moving into DDR3 anyways.